The place of birth of Ena Begović - Revision history

Denny at 06:15, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T06:15:06Z

Denny at 01:29, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T01:29:20Z

Denny at 01:23, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T01:23:05Z

Denny at 01:22, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T01:22:47Z

Denny at 01:05, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T01:05:03Z

Denny at 00:57, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T00:57:31Z

Denny at 00:57, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T00:57:01Z

Denny at 00:55, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T00:55:28Z

Denny at 00:54, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T00:54:36Z

Denny at 00:53, 25 February 2023

2023-02-25T00:53:54Z

@@ Line 87: / Line 87: @@
 Thank you for going along on this rather nerdy ride of [https://xkcd.com/978/ citogenesis].
 {{tag|Simia}}
 <noinclude>{{simiapost|english}}</noinclude>

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 Just for fun, I also asked ChatGPT (on February 15). And the answer surprised me: when I asked in English, it gave me, unsurprisingly, Split (certainly what the Web seems to believe). But when I asked in Croatian, it gave me a different answer! And the answer was neither Split, nor Trpanj, and also not Dubrovnik - but ''Zagreb''! It is interesting that something like the place of birth of an actress would lead to different answers depending on the language. I would have expected this knowledge to be in the 'world knowledge' of the LLM, not in the 'language knowledge'. I can't check out Bing's chat interface, as I have no access to it, but I would be curious what it says and how long it takes to update.
-Thank you for going along on this rather nerdy ride.
+Thank you for going along on this rather nerdy ride of [https://xkcd.com/978/ citogenesis].
 {{tag|Simia}}
 <noinclude>{{simiapost|english}}</noinclude>

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 Only very few of the sources predate the English Wikipedia article, most notably:
 * [https://net.hr/danas/sahranjena-ena-begovic-e341728c-b1ce-11eb-8926-0242ac150013 net.hr] published the news of her death and burial in 2000, and lists Split as the place of birth
-* [https://web.archive.org/web/20050424002621/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/ IMdb from April 2005 via Archive] lists Split, and throughout [https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm until today]
+* [https://web.archive.org/web/20050424002621/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/ IMdb from April 2005 via Archive] lists Split, and throughout (I guess?) [https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm until today]
 I also looked up her sister Mia and found her profile on Facebook and sent her a message, but I assume she never even saw this message request. At least I never received an answer (and I didn't expect to). For Mia, the situation is similar: her article originally stated Split, was changed by Lole484 and reverted by an anonymous user, both in English and Croatian, whereas the other languages just list Split throughout.

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 Only very few of the sources predate the English Wikipedia article, most notably:
 * [https://net.hr/danas/sahranjena-ena-begovic-e341728c-b1ce-11eb-8926-0242ac150013 net.hr] published the news of her death and burial in 2000, and lists Split as the place of birth
-* [https://web.archive.org/web/20050424002621/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/ IMdb from April 2005 via Archive] lists Split, but today's IMDB does not list the place of birth anymore
+* [https://web.archive.org/web/20050424002621/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/ IMdb from April 2005 via Archive] lists Split, and throughout [https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0066807/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm until today]
 I also looked up her sister Mia and found her profile on Facebook and sent her a message, but I assume she never even saw this message request. At least I never received an answer (and I didn't expect to). For Mia, the situation is similar: her article originally stated Split, was changed by Lole484 and reverted by an anonymous user, both in English and Croatian, whereas the other languages just list Split throughout.

@@ Line 78: / Line 78: @@
 '''Mia''': It is interesting that in Trpanj we were born as renters. Our parents built the little house (in which we lived) only later.
-Ha! It is amusing to see that Ena's worry was that everyone thinks they are from Dubrovnik. I couldn't find a single source claiming that (but she went to high school (''gimnazijum'') in Dubrovnik, which is probably the source of that statement from 30 years ago).
+Ha! It is amusing to see that Ena's worry was that everyone thinks they are from Dubrovnik. I couldn't find a single source claiming that (but she went to high school (''gimnazijum'') in Dubrovnik, which is probably the source of that statement from 30 years ago). Also, so much for ''birth house''.
-Given all of that, I am going with Trpanj, and making the changes to the Wikipedias. Let's see if it sticks.
+Given all of that, I am going with Trpanj, and making the changes to the Wikipedia languages as much as I can (if someone can help with Arabic and Egyptian Arabic for Ena and Mia, that would be swell, I cannot edit that language edition). Let's see if it sticks.
-So, why did Google know the correct answer, even though their usual sources, such as Wikidata and Wikipedia where saying Split? I can't say too much but it is due to the Google Knowledge Graph team and their quality processes. Seriously, congratulations to my former colleagues at Google for getting that right!
+So, why did Google know the correct answer, even though their usual sources, such as Wikidata and Wikipedia where saying Split? I mustn't say too much but it is due to the Google Knowledge Graph team and their quality processes. Seriously, congratulations to my former colleagues at Google for getting that right!
-Just for fun, I also asked ChatGPT (February 15). And the answer surprised me: when I asked in English, it gave me, unsurprisingly, Split. But when I asked in Croatian, it gave me a different answer! And the answer was neither Split, nor Trpanj, nor Dubrovnik - but Zagreb. It is interesting that something like the date of birth of an actress would lead to different answers depending on the language. I would have expected this knowledge to be in the 'world knowledge' of the LLM, not in the 'language knowledge'.
+Just for fun, I also asked ChatGPT (on February 15). And the answer surprised me: when I asked in English, it gave me, unsurprisingly, Split (certainly what the Web seems to believe). But when I asked in Croatian, it gave me a different answer! And the answer was neither Split, nor Trpanj, and also not Dubrovnik - but ''Zagreb''! It is interesting that something like the place of birth of an actress would lead to different answers depending on the language. I would have expected this knowledge to be in the 'world knowledge' of the LLM, not in the 'language knowledge'. I can't check out Bing's chat interface, as I have no access to it, but I would be curious what it says and how long it takes to update.
-<!--{{tag|Simia}}
+Thank you for going along on this rather nerdy ride.
 <noinclude>{{simiapost|english}}</noinclude>

@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 * [https://web.archive.org/web/20070703184655/http://www.film.hr/bazafilm_ljud.php?PHPSESSID=5e5546487a0666c93257a9f1255ccc10&filmoviOrder=Sorter_godina&filmoviDir=ASC&ljud_id=1657 film.hr via Archive], from 2007
 * [https://www.espreso.co.rs/viralno/svastara/1176607/biografija-ene-begovic Espreso.co.rs] writes Split, published 2022
-* [https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8256638/ena-begovic Find-a-grave] lists Split on the side, but more importantly, the photograph of her grave avoids a mention of the place, but only gives the date of her birth and death
+* [https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8256638/ena-begovic Find-a-grave] lists Split on the site, but more importantly, the photograph of her grave avoids a mention of the place, but only gives the date of her birth and death
 * [https://www.csfd.cz/tvurce/5604-ena-begovic/galerie/ ČSFD (Czechoslovak film database)]
 * [https://prabook.com/web/ena.begovic/2419036 Prabook], from the World Biographical Encyclopedia

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 The only other Wikipedia language edition that saw a change of the place of birth was the Bosnian. The article on [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&oldid=82266 Bosnian Wikipedia] started a few months after the Croatian, in 2006 (and thus being the third oldest article), and presumably also just copied from either Croatian or English. Lole484 changed it to Trpanj in April 2018, just like on the other Wikipedias. Here [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2929263 it was reverted] the next day, but Lole484's sockpuppet Ivan Ladic [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2979023 reinstated that change] in January 2019. When I started this adventure, the only Wikipedia that stated Trpanj was Bosnian, all other eight language editions with an article said Split.
-On Wikidata, [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&oldid=1913086 the item was created in 2012], shortly after the launch of the site, based on the existing six sitelinks. The place of birth is [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&diff=next&oldid=81189895 added the following year], imported from the Russian Wikipedia.
+On Wikidata, [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&oldid=1913086 the item was created in 2012], shortly after the launch of the site, based on the existing six sitelinks. The place of birth being Split is [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&diff=next&oldid=81189895 added the following year], imported from the Russian Wikipedia.
 After I stumbled upon the situation, I [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&diff=next&oldid=1811990628 added Trpanj as second place of birth], and added sources to both Trpanj and Split.

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 None of the other language editions had their article started in the 2018-2019 window when English and Croatian stated the place of birth as Trpanj.
-The only other Wikipedia language edition that saw a change of the place of birth was the Bosnian. [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&oldid=82266 Bosnian Wikipedia] started a few months after the Croatian, in 2006 (and thus being the third oldest article), and presumably also just copied from either Croatian or English. Lole484 changed it to Trpanj in April 2018, just like on the other Wikipedias. Here [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2929263 it was reverted] the next day, but Lole484's sockpuppet Ivan Ladic [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2979023 reinstated that change] in January 2019. When I started this adventure, the only Wikipedia that stated Trpanj was Bosnian, all other eight language editions with an article said Split.
+The only other Wikipedia language edition that saw a change of the place of birth was the Bosnian. The article on [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&oldid=82266 Bosnian Wikipedia] started a few months after the Croatian, in 2006 (and thus being the third oldest article), and presumably also just copied from either Croatian or English. Lole484 changed it to Trpanj in April 2018, just like on the other Wikipedias. Here [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2929263 it was reverted] the next day, but Lole484's sockpuppet Ivan Ladic [https://bs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ena_Begovi%C4%87&diff=prev&oldid=2979023 reinstated that change] in January 2019. When I started this adventure, the only Wikipedia that stated Trpanj was Bosnian, all other eight language editions with an article said Split.
 On Wikidata, [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&oldid=1913086 the item was created in 2012], shortly after the launch of the site, based on the existing six sitelinks. The place of birth is [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1276558&diff=next&oldid=81189895 added the following year], imported from the Russian Wikipedia.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 They all had Split from the beginning and throughout until today, presumably copied from English, directly or indirectly.
-January 2022, Serbian Wikipedia's opening sentence, which includes the place of birth being Split, [https://sr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%95%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B&diff=next&oldid=24307644 receives a reference] - but the [https://7svetskihcudasveta.wordpress.com/2018/06/09/%d0%b5%d0%bd%d0%b0-%d0%b1%d0%b5%d0%b3%d0%be%d0%b2%d0%b8%d1%9b/ reference actually states Trpanj].
+Amusingly, Serbian Wikipedia's opening sentence, which includes the place of birth being Split, [https://sr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%95%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B&diff=next&oldid=24307644 receives a reference] in January 2022 - but the [https://7svetskihcudasveta.wordpress.com/2018/06/09/%d0%b5%d0%bd%d0%b0-%d0%b1%d0%b5%d0%b3%d0%be%d0%b2%d0%b8%d1%9b/ reference actually states Trpanj].
 None of the other language editions had their article started in the 2018-2019 window when English and Croatian stated the place of birth as Trpanj.